What are some good ways a "family head" could study with his family, helping them to see the weak points in Watchtower thinking? I wish to start this somehow, but since "family study" is seen as simply going over some misc. Watchtower publication, I don't see where I can make the headway. I possibly thought about using the infamous "secular" sources in the study. I just don't know what angle to tackle this from. Any Suggestions?
drew sagan
JoinedPosts by drew sagan
-
16
Family Bible Study
by drew sagan inwhat are some good ways a "family head" could study with his family, helping them to see the weak points in watchtower thinking?
i wish to start this somehow, but since "family study" is seen as simply going over some misc.
watchtower publication, i don't see where i can make the headway.
-
-
-
34
Profile of the New Awake!
by Severus injw's now have the january awake!
in hand.
notice that there is no specific date, for the awake!
-
-
drew sagan
I think they finally realized that the Witnesses have had enough of articles about the history of (instert stuipid object here). More than that, they realize that AWAKE! plays no important role in their ministry in America and other English speaking countries so they are cutting it back. It's part of what I feel is a slow change they are making to try and make themselves know as the "Bible People" instead of just magazine peddlers. Of course, this will never work because for this to happen they have to quite putting focus on these magazines!
-
18
Can anyone recommend a good book to read?
by evergreen ini really fancy reading r franzes book " in search of christian freedom".
has anyone read this book?.
if so is it worth a read?
-
-
drew sagan
I feel that In Search of Christian Freedom is the BEST possible book to read when questioning the Watchtower. Raymond Franz is very logical and kind in his presentation. His main goal is to provide facts that most Witnesses don't have the pleasure to know. One word of caution though, do not expect to find all the answers to life in the book. Ray makes it very clear that removal from a system of worship may not bring any happiness at all. Each one of us has to use our Christian Freedom wisely.
-
32
reading Proclaimers book
by MerryMagdalene ina very loyal and loving jw requested that i read the book jehovah's witnesses proclaimers of god's kingdom, sincerely confident that it will lay to rest all my objections and convince me this is indeed god's organization to which i must return right away.. ok, i will read it, but only because it's my mother that asked it of me, and she has tried so hard to be tolerant and understanding of where i am coming from as regards my firm stand in not returning.. i thought i would post my notes along the way in case they would be useful to someone else, and if anyone wants to add their own thoughts and notes i would be grateful.
chapter 1--why should jehovah have witnesses?.
since all references to such in the bible are pre-christian and refer to israelites being witnesses that their god, yhwh, is the god, the one god, the only god, and in a contractual relationship with them.
-
-
drew sagan
You will find much in the book that leaves you probably more frustrated than before you opened it's pages. No self written history book will ever divulge all the facts about a particular group. By showing kindness towards you mother, and by living your life in such a way as to show that you really love God may be the only way to reach her. Keep on in your studies, you are doing well.
-
34
Jesus, the people of his day, and of theology
by drew sagan ini'm sure this has been discussed before on this board, but since i'm new i'll throw it out there anyway.
the watchtower never reveals what the people (mainly jews) of jesus day held as to the afterlife.
it is true that the scribes and pharisees had terrible ideas mixed with greek philosophy and that they stumbled the people.
-
-
drew sagan
For most Christians (and Witnesses) to know the existance of these books is quite rare. This website offers some of these "pseudopigraphic writings" available to read online.
http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/
I have found the apocalyptic nature of these books quite interesting. -
34
Jesus, the people of his day, and of theology
by drew sagan ini'm sure this has been discussed before on this board, but since i'm new i'll throw it out there anyway.
the watchtower never reveals what the people (mainly jews) of jesus day held as to the afterlife.
it is true that the scribes and pharisees had terrible ideas mixed with greek philosophy and that they stumbled the people.
-
-
drew sagan
I totally see where you are coming from. I hate typing as well. There are a hundered differant ways to cut the same lemon.
I actually have another idea brewing in my head that flows into this subject, let me throw it out there.
2 Timothy 3:16
This is a favorite bible verse amongst Witnesses. Was Paul writing this about his own letters? All of the other N.T. writings? Or just the O.T. writings?
Of course the answer is quite obvious when looking at the verse that comes before it (in my opinion, mabyee someone has their own? Lets discuss).
"and that from infancy you have known the holy writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through the faith in connection with Christ Jesus."
This then possibly opens the debate as to if the N.T. writings where ever intended to be in "The Bible", or are they a simple guide, written by imperfect men that give us the last bit of light into Gods plan for mankind?
There is a famous quote that says "the only thing we can learn from history is that we can't learn from history:
I can't remember who said it, but I sure do like that quote.
In a nutshell I think thats what all Christians today are struggling with. We still haven't learned from the mistakes made long ago.
Jesus knew that many would become "Christins" after he left the earthly scene, but would never truely be his followers. Christiantiy would become like the many other religions the world has seen, it would take on a "phyisical" presence.I simply feel we need to get past that. To look at it for what it is. Never forget that looking to men ends in failure, looking towards God is with salvation. All of the N.T. writers where imperfect, made mistakes
I know my arguements are weak in some areas. I still believe that Gods plan for mankind is found in the pages of the Bible, but not in the traditional way others view it. I'm familier with some of the information regarding the first century Christians, their stuggles and their failures. When looking at such history it can almost become depressing. But after much thought my conclusion at this point has been to see how such things are part of Gods plan, and not proof it dosn't exist.
Thanks so much for your opinions and critisim. This is the first time I have ever put what I believe into writing. It is sloppy and inconsistant, but in time I think this can really help me to develop. Best wishes to all of you!
-drew -
16
Post questions a study should ask before joining the Org.
by JH in.
what questions should a study ask before joining the jw org?
-
-
drew sagan
1. Where does the Bible say that you have to believe in a specefic man made sect of Christianity to be saved?
A great exercise would be aksing them to compare 2 Timothy 3:1-5 with the last few verses in Romans chapter one. The Society has allways used 2Tim 3:-5 as proof we are in the last days, but in Romans the text is almost identical and yet Paul was taking about people who where on the earth before him!
I would also suggest asking questions about the Revelation book. Be prepared with good questions and most Witnesses will shutter at a TRUE discussion of interpretation! -
15
JW Cartoons
by drew sagan injust wanted everybody to know that everyday i'm posting humorus jw cartoons over at my site.
i'm using this as kind of a creative release.
http://thedailytower.blogspot.com/ .
-
-
drew sagan
Thanks for the great feedback guys. I'll be adding new ones everyday, make sure to keep cheking back.
observador, you can do whatever you want with them!
thanks
-drew -
34
Jesus, the people of his day, and of theology
by drew sagan ini'm sure this has been discussed before on this board, but since i'm new i'll throw it out there anyway.
the watchtower never reveals what the people (mainly jews) of jesus day held as to the afterlife.
it is true that the scribes and pharisees had terrible ideas mixed with greek philosophy and that they stumbled the people.
-
-
drew sagan
I guess I didn't make clear some of my points and said a few things in the wrong order. I didn't really mean to spark up debate about the influence of Greek philosophy amongst the Jews and the idea of the afterlife in particular. The writings of Philo and the Apocrypha are a clear indication that Greek philosophy had worked its way into the differant sects of the Parisee movement. The Talmud is full of such referances to the superstitions that where held, including the instructions of rituals in the protection of spritism. Such things where in stark contrast to Gods Law, but where accepted by the people and religious leaders.
By scribes I'm actually thinking of more than just those who lived during Jesus time, but instead of all those copiers of the Law, Talmud, Apocrapha, Ect... that had brough in all kinds of various interpretations by their "copies" throughout the centuries.
What I meant by the Pharisees "terrible" ideas was not really the idea of an afterlife, but instead the spiritism and superstitions that had evolved and accepted amonst the Jews. Such things are found very eaisly, and I can post some of the referances to these things if you like.
I simply meant that despite all of the conflicting views on differant theological issues at the time, Jesus corrected only what he had to and went no further. He instead refered to the more important issues of love and faith. This is in stark contrast to the Watchtower and other super conservitive groups that wish to impose their point of view.
Sorry for the confusion. The word "terrible" wasn't the best choice. -
34
Jesus, the people of his day, and of theology
by drew sagan ini'm sure this has been discussed before on this board, but since i'm new i'll throw it out there anyway.
the watchtower never reveals what the people (mainly jews) of jesus day held as to the afterlife.
it is true that the scribes and pharisees had terrible ideas mixed with greek philosophy and that they stumbled the people.
-
-
drew sagan
I'm sure this has been discussed before on this board, but since I'm new I'll throw it out there anyway. The Watchtower never reveals what the people (mainly Jews) of Jesus day held as to the afterlife. It is true that the Scribes and Pharisees had terrible ideas mixed with Greek philosophy and that they stumbled the people. This is my point though. God had allowed his people for centuries to have ideas that weren't "Watchtower" approved. Many of the people in Jesus day believed in life after death, as well as other ideas. Jesus never came to teach people the correct "theology". He instead focused his entire message upon faith. When people where healed by Jesus he then didn't say, "now that I healed you, here is all of the doctrines you need to understand before you get baptized". That would have been absurd. Instead he would say something like "You faith has made you well, be on your way". People in Jesus day had views of such things as the afterlife, condition of the dead, ect..., but Jesus didn't focus on one opinion or the other. Lots of information regarding this subject can be found in Alfred Edersheims book "The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah". It has given me much insight to realize that Jesus didn't focus on the theology that everyone is so consumed with today, including the Watchtower Society.